I walked into the “Writing the Breakout Novel Workshop” with Donald Mass with set plans for my WIP, my blogs, my ideas about self-promoting, hell, my entire writing career, and eight hours later I walked out of there with those plans happily torn to shreds. After spending the whole day with the uber agent I left there with definitive, clear-cut ideas for taking my career, my online presence, and especially my WIP in a whole different direction.
During the first coffee break, I approached Donald with the intent of having a little one-on-one chat, a personal interview of sorts for I wanted some insights I could share with my blogger buddies. I had a whole laundry list of topics I’d been dying to ask, but realized with 75 desperate writers in the room all jockeying for his attention I’d only have this one shot to ask just one of my many questions. So in the interest of the JD blog community I picked a topic I thought would most interest my peeps: What do agents really think about writers’ blogs? How important is it to an agent that a writer has a blog (or myspace or a website) to self-promote?
As Church Lady says, Let’s discuss!
The first of my questions on the topic was lengthy and detailed: “Donald,” I asked, “when you receive a manuscript or query that impresses you, when you’re seriously considering taking someone on as client, do you google them? If you do, and they have a blog, a myspace, a website, if they already demonstrate the ability and willingness to self-promote, if they already have that publicity machinery in place by the time they query, does that make a potential client more appealing? Does any of that factor into your decision making process?”
Donald sat patiently listening, taking it all in, and when I was done, he said, “I don’t give a rat’s ASS about ANY of that!”
Well. My. Don’t be shy, Donald, tell me how you really feel!
I sat back, stunned as much by the vehemence of his tone as I was by the words themselves. Alert the media, Josie D. was speechless! Donald, seeing how smartly this punch had landed, went on to say, “Look, don’t get me wrong, I've got nothing against a writer using a blog to enhance their self esteem. If they use it to communicate with other writers, then good, hey, I’m all for that but ….“ (if his initial reply was like a kick in the gut then what came next was like a blow to the head) “but the biggest thing I’m afraid of with these blogs is that it scratches the itch.”
He didn’t need to explain, for I knew exactly what he meant and said as much: “So, blogging’s ok as long as it doesn’t diminish the desire to write.”
Donald nodded. “Exactly.”
This got me thinking about my upcoming reply to Merry’s meme, the “why I blog” question, and I’ll be addressing this issue along with the “itch” factor in an upcoming post.
Donald went on, admitting, “Sure, when I receive a manuscript from an unknown writer, or an established writer wanting to jump start a career, to take it up a notch because their sales have gone flat, when I see that I have a breakout manuscript written by someone I think has tremendous career potential, sure, I’ll google them. Yeah, I’m curious, I want to know a little more about them, have a better sense of who they are, but that’s all.”
I interpreted his online search as something done solely to find basic biographical info on a potential client, and that google was an easy means to learn a bit about a writer’s background, but not something he did to check if the writer has any online presence or ability to self-promote.
Still, I could think of some exceptions, people I knew right now that used blogs, (and/or myspace/websites) to attract an agent’s attention and promote their upcoming or newly released books. Being a curious, if not argumentative person by nature (not that any of you noticed J ), I needed clarity, so I pressed Donald on certain anecdotal evidence. “I’m sure you’re aware that there are agents actively blogging –“ (here Donald suppressed a look I’d already become familiar – part eye-roll, part wince that he stops halfway to full expression), “and that there are writers who believe if they actively comment on these agent blogs, that it’ll give them a better chance, a bit more familiarity with an agent, and therefore a leg-up come query time.”
I went on to tell Donald that I’ve seen some instances where this just may possibly have worked. I also told him that there were newbie writers with first books out, or first books about to be released, writers who were actively using their blogs (and/or myspace/website) as promotional tools, and there was evidence that there had been some success with sales because of their efforts, and that there were wanna-be writers – not a lot – one or two – who actively commented on agents’ blogs and were eventually signed by those agents, and what did Donald think about that?
His answer came as no surprise because the whole time I’d been talking, he’d been shaking his head side to side, meaning, yeah, yeah, yeah, that might have worked for a select few, that some sales might well have been generated by online promotional efforts, but – here he made his palms and fingers flat, then held his hands a few inches apart and said with the same vehemence of his earlier reply, “It’s what’s between the cover that sell the book.” Tender reader, he doesn’t so much say these words but rather hurls them at me.
There was more. “Look,” he says, “after you’ve got 4-5 books under your belt, you’ve built up a fan base (in his own advice books, Donald talks a great deal about branding, and clearly he’s alluding to it here), and after 4-5 books, those fans are now more familiar with the writer, more curious about them and because of that they want to know more about them. That’s the time when a writer needs a blog, a myspace, a website, a whatever, to cultivate their fans, and by doing so, by giving their already existing fans a more personal connection, that’s what leads to bigger sales.”
I nodded my head, agreeing, understanding. But I still wasn’t done. I told him there was thriller writer I knew on myspace, (I named a name Donald clearly recognized, a guy who’s initials are “B.E” – a quite handsome fellow who’s one of my own “top myspace” friends and if you click on the myspace link in my blog roll you’ll see exactly who I’m talking about here) a writer who for the first time last year made the NY Times bestseller list, and who openly stated on myspace that the reason he believes he had this success, this fulfillment of every writer’s dream, was the fact that he had a huge myspace presence whereas in the past, with his prior 3-4 releases, he did not have any myspace presence and therefore – he believes that’s why he did not make the bestseller list, and what did Donald have to say about that?
This time words were not enough for Donald used a hand gesture to tell me what he thought – he made the finger! I kid you not! He flipped the bird! No, not at me, or at least I hope not but basically he was saying, “Fuck that.”
Once more, I was shocked silent, but I remembered what Donald had said to me earlier about the fan base level you get after a certain number of books. I began to think about branding.
A light bulb went off and I said, “Oh, I get it. ‘B.E.’ made the right association, but he got it backwards. It’s because he’d already written those 3-4 books (and maybe, I thought to myself, his writing had improved to best seller level as well), because he’d already developed a fan base, that when he started a myspace page, he provided a place where already existing fans could come, and because they now had a more personal connection with the author, that made them want to buy his books even more. Thus, the bestseller list. The myspace enhanced the fan level that was already there, it didn’t create it.”
Yes, grasshopper.
“Exactly,” said Donald who seemed pleased that I was at last able to grasp the ins-and-outs of book promoting. But I wasn’t the only one who had lots of food for thought because Donald asked me to repeat the question during the Q & A session at the end of the workshop because he wanted everyone there to know his opinion on the merits of online promotion, and at what stage in a writer’s career does it pay off.
Friends of the blog, am I the only one here considering some serious re-grouping?
To sum up, Donald was willing to concede there were examples, few and far between, where an online presence helped in some small ways, but in terms of significant sales or opportunity, you have to wait until you’ve released 4-5 books for the time and effort spent promoting yourself online to payoff in any way that’s worthwhile, sales-wise.
If I’d done nothing more yesterday than to have this conversation, then my time and money would have been well spent.
But there’s so much more I have to share with you guys, and up next, I’ll tell you Donald’s thoughts about the state of the biz, what he looking for in a client and if he’s open to submissions and what kind/genre. Also, he had some very interesting writing exercises and tons of tips to help create that “breakout novel.”
During the first coffee break, I approached Donald with the intent of having a little one-on-one chat, a personal interview of sorts for I wanted some insights I could share with my blogger buddies. I had a whole laundry list of topics I’d been dying to ask, but realized with 75 desperate writers in the room all jockeying for his attention I’d only have this one shot to ask just one of my many questions. So in the interest of the JD blog community I picked a topic I thought would most interest my peeps: What do agents really think about writers’ blogs? How important is it to an agent that a writer has a blog (or myspace or a website) to self-promote?
As Church Lady says, Let’s discuss!
The first of my questions on the topic was lengthy and detailed: “Donald,” I asked, “when you receive a manuscript or query that impresses you, when you’re seriously considering taking someone on as client, do you google them? If you do, and they have a blog, a myspace, a website, if they already demonstrate the ability and willingness to self-promote, if they already have that publicity machinery in place by the time they query, does that make a potential client more appealing? Does any of that factor into your decision making process?”
Donald sat patiently listening, taking it all in, and when I was done, he said, “I don’t give a rat’s ASS about ANY of that!”
Well. My. Don’t be shy, Donald, tell me how you really feel!
I sat back, stunned as much by the vehemence of his tone as I was by the words themselves. Alert the media, Josie D. was speechless! Donald, seeing how smartly this punch had landed, went on to say, “Look, don’t get me wrong, I've got nothing against a writer using a blog to enhance their self esteem. If they use it to communicate with other writers, then good, hey, I’m all for that but ….“ (if his initial reply was like a kick in the gut then what came next was like a blow to the head) “but the biggest thing I’m afraid of with these blogs is that it scratches the itch.”
He didn’t need to explain, for I knew exactly what he meant and said as much: “So, blogging’s ok as long as it doesn’t diminish the desire to write.”
Donald nodded. “Exactly.”
This got me thinking about my upcoming reply to Merry’s meme, the “why I blog” question, and I’ll be addressing this issue along with the “itch” factor in an upcoming post.
Donald went on, admitting, “Sure, when I receive a manuscript from an unknown writer, or an established writer wanting to jump start a career, to take it up a notch because their sales have gone flat, when I see that I have a breakout manuscript written by someone I think has tremendous career potential, sure, I’ll google them. Yeah, I’m curious, I want to know a little more about them, have a better sense of who they are, but that’s all.”
I interpreted his online search as something done solely to find basic biographical info on a potential client, and that google was an easy means to learn a bit about a writer’s background, but not something he did to check if the writer has any online presence or ability to self-promote.
Still, I could think of some exceptions, people I knew right now that used blogs, (and/or myspace/websites) to attract an agent’s attention and promote their upcoming or newly released books. Being a curious, if not argumentative person by nature (not that any of you noticed J ), I needed clarity, so I pressed Donald on certain anecdotal evidence. “I’m sure you’re aware that there are agents actively blogging –“ (here Donald suppressed a look I’d already become familiar – part eye-roll, part wince that he stops halfway to full expression), “and that there are writers who believe if they actively comment on these agent blogs, that it’ll give them a better chance, a bit more familiarity with an agent, and therefore a leg-up come query time.”
I went on to tell Donald that I’ve seen some instances where this just may possibly have worked. I also told him that there were newbie writers with first books out, or first books about to be released, writers who were actively using their blogs (and/or myspace/website) as promotional tools, and there was evidence that there had been some success with sales because of their efforts, and that there were wanna-be writers – not a lot – one or two – who actively commented on agents’ blogs and were eventually signed by those agents, and what did Donald think about that?
His answer came as no surprise because the whole time I’d been talking, he’d been shaking his head side to side, meaning, yeah, yeah, yeah, that might have worked for a select few, that some sales might well have been generated by online promotional efforts, but – here he made his palms and fingers flat, then held his hands a few inches apart and said with the same vehemence of his earlier reply, “It’s what’s between the cover that sell the book.” Tender reader, he doesn’t so much say these words but rather hurls them at me.
There was more. “Look,” he says, “after you’ve got 4-5 books under your belt, you’ve built up a fan base (in his own advice books, Donald talks a great deal about branding, and clearly he’s alluding to it here), and after 4-5 books, those fans are now more familiar with the writer, more curious about them and because of that they want to know more about them. That’s the time when a writer needs a blog, a myspace, a website, a whatever, to cultivate their fans, and by doing so, by giving their already existing fans a more personal connection, that’s what leads to bigger sales.”
I nodded my head, agreeing, understanding. But I still wasn’t done. I told him there was thriller writer I knew on myspace, (I named a name Donald clearly recognized, a guy who’s initials are “B.E” – a quite handsome fellow who’s one of my own “top myspace” friends and if you click on the myspace link in my blog roll you’ll see exactly who I’m talking about here) a writer who for the first time last year made the NY Times bestseller list, and who openly stated on myspace that the reason he believes he had this success, this fulfillment of every writer’s dream, was the fact that he had a huge myspace presence whereas in the past, with his prior 3-4 releases, he did not have any myspace presence and therefore – he believes that’s why he did not make the bestseller list, and what did Donald have to say about that?
This time words were not enough for Donald used a hand gesture to tell me what he thought – he made the finger! I kid you not! He flipped the bird! No, not at me, or at least I hope not but basically he was saying, “Fuck that.”
Once more, I was shocked silent, but I remembered what Donald had said to me earlier about the fan base level you get after a certain number of books. I began to think about branding.
A light bulb went off and I said, “Oh, I get it. ‘B.E.’ made the right association, but he got it backwards. It’s because he’d already written those 3-4 books (and maybe, I thought to myself, his writing had improved to best seller level as well), because he’d already developed a fan base, that when he started a myspace page, he provided a place where already existing fans could come, and because they now had a more personal connection with the author, that made them want to buy his books even more. Thus, the bestseller list. The myspace enhanced the fan level that was already there, it didn’t create it.”
Yes, grasshopper.
“Exactly,” said Donald who seemed pleased that I was at last able to grasp the ins-and-outs of book promoting. But I wasn’t the only one who had lots of food for thought because Donald asked me to repeat the question during the Q & A session at the end of the workshop because he wanted everyone there to know his opinion on the merits of online promotion, and at what stage in a writer’s career does it pay off.
Friends of the blog, am I the only one here considering some serious re-grouping?
To sum up, Donald was willing to concede there were examples, few and far between, where an online presence helped in some small ways, but in terms of significant sales or opportunity, you have to wait until you’ve released 4-5 books for the time and effort spent promoting yourself online to payoff in any way that’s worthwhile, sales-wise.
If I’d done nothing more yesterday than to have this conversation, then my time and money would have been well spent.
But there’s so much more I have to share with you guys, and up next, I’ll tell you Donald’s thoughts about the state of the biz, what he looking for in a client and if he’s open to submissions and what kind/genre. Also, he had some very interesting writing exercises and tons of tips to help create that “breakout novel.”
To read part 2, click here: http://josephinedamian.blogspot.com/2008/02/donald-chronicles-part-2-or-what-does.html
51 comments:
Oh my God, I think I'm in love... that's exactly what I loved so much about his book - that he put the onus on what you've written, not every other scatter brained thing to garner readership... hey, marketing might get people to buy, but it won't make them happy about it - a great book does that...
And quite frankly, the swearing's a good thing for me, I like people who are forthright and the phrase, "I don't give a rat's ass..." is among my favorites...
As far as this blogging thing, his stance actually makes me feel a bit better... I've been using my blog as a way to network with writers, not future readers... so at least I'm not shooting myself in the foot, there... on the other hand, I think I need to rework the amount of time I do spend blogging because it is taking away from the time I have for writing...
But, in the circle jerk of it all, I've learned so much that's improved my own query/pitch/writing that the time spent online has been well worth it... heck, just the time we spent on BookEnds and JJ's Goblin's crucible helped me nail down my query letter...
I have been thinking it's time to back off until I've got a better writing schedule... but that's another animal altogether...
Thanks for sharing Josephine, all good stuff to know. Donald is actually on my *choir of angels singing* agents I'd love list... but I'm still not sure my stuff's a good fit there, and I've found a few agents so far that I think my current wip would make an excellent fit for... so I'm still debating a bit.
I look forward to all the other great info to come.
Thanks for asking the question and sharing it with us. I have only heard good things about Donald Maass both about his workshops and book.
I assume you are talking about Barry Eisler. He was the keynote speaker at my local conference last year.
I have also had the pleasure to meet other agents and editors that blog including Jessica Faust.
And you know what, from agents, to editors, to authors who are making their living via writing fiction there opinions rarely if ever coincide. I have concluded there is no one way.
You get there how you get there. Sure there are many traps and pitfall that can stop you. For example you wouldn't want to use a blog with your real name on it to vent, to talk about why this agent is obviously an idiot for rejecting your 400,000 word romance, or that no one understands the magic behind you omniscient dog POV.
I think each writer has to keep plugging away int heir own way. If a blog makes them feel more connected and encourages them - blog away. If the added distraction keeps them from writing or slows the creation of their work too much don't.
I have been guilt of letting the blog satisfy my itch but I try to watch out for that having learned that lesson. I have no doubt that one day I will sell a novel. Tomorrow, next week or ten years from now I can't say, but it will happen.
And when it does I truly believe the blog will help sell a few copies. Will it automatically land me on a best seller list, NO, but you have to sell that first, second and third copy before you sell a a hundred thousand.
Sorry that got so long. Just my rambling thoughts.
Travis: Yes, correct about author's name, and yes, this is just Donald's view of things. Re: his attitude toward any form of online promoting, I think his age
(50?) could be a factor -a young agent like Nathan who grew up in cyber space like everyone else his age, may take a more positive view toward it, and I think agent/
writer Deidre Knight encourages writers to online promote - but she handles romance, and those writers have to churn out 4-5 books a year, so they reach that crucial audience level a lot more quickly.
*note to self* - rethink novel with omniscient dog POV. lol
Donald is all about the bestseller (and getting a film deal - more on that later). If an author's goal is just to see their book in print, if mid-list success is ok by them, then Donald's mind-set and advice might not appeal to them.
I think the point he was trying to make is that the time/effort/
energy that goes into an online presense is not comesurate with the sales it will generate early on in a career - that it becomes a means of generating sales that justify the time spent managing the online presense only after you've reached a certain fan base level.
Travis, you have a very successful blog with a hoard of loyal fans - but not every blogger does - not every blogger who may be spending the time and effort you do has as as strong and appealing a "voice" as you, and their time blogging might not pay off in terms of sales in the same way as yours hopefully will.
No need to apologize about a long comment, and I don't expect everyone to agree with Donald or any other advice they read here - but it was an important to ask him - and I hope other blogger peeps, if they get a chance at a conference, ask the same question of other agents whom no doubt might gave a different POV.
Merry, lots of writers get published, but do they stay published, or get stuck in some mid-list rut? I see a lot of that and sure as hell want to avoid those pitfalls at all costs.
If you're planning on querying DM, by all means pick up his "Writing the Breakout Novel Workbook" because it has exercises you can apply as you re-write your WIP. He also mentions the YA book "Artemis Fowl" as an example of they type of YA book he's likes.
DM made note of all the promotional bookmarks and postcards being handed out by the romance writers in my group (the group that hosted the workshop), and he says they are a waste of time and money as well.
There's a big name author in our group, formerly repped by William Morris Agency(!) who not only ditched her agent but her publisher as well since she considers it "their fault" that she has not had the success she'd hoped for - too bad she didn't understand that the buck stops with her - or rather the quality of her writing - a message DM certainly drove home during the workshop - the question is: was she listening?
Josie---
1) Your prize is in the mail. Hope you like it!
2) What a most excellent way to distinguish yourself. I think it's remarkable that you not only had such a meaningful conversation with Maass but also had such memorable points and questions that he called on you to revisit them during a session! Way to go!
3) Thank you for sharing this. I think it's easy to get distracted by everything that goes into publishing, and this is a sharp reminder that the most important thing, THE MOST IMPORTANT THING, is to write a great book, worth publishing.
Precie: looking forward to the surprise prize!
I hope folks can tell that I wasn't arguing with him in a nit-wit way because if I was he would not have devoted so much time to me - and clearly the issue of the effectiveness of online promoting is a subject of debate among agents as well. DM is really big on keeping a keen on the trends in the biz, and I think he got the impression that I too had evaluated and questioned several aspects of online promoting - I think that impressed him more than any pitch I could have thrown his way.
Josephine,
Heh...he does have gusto, doesn't he? (g) Love this...thanks for posting.
BTW, do you know you won my contest? (g)
Jen
Jen: DM dropped quite a few F-bombs during the workshop saying, Fuck it, I'm from NY!
Thanks for letting me know about the contest. I'm on quite the winning streak these days.
PS: I gave you some linky love.
Thanks for the compliment son my blog and voice. I really am glad you posed that question and posted his answer. I don't think he is wrong in his assessment. I just think there is more than one way to shoe a horse and as writers we are the ones hoisting that manure covered hoof so we better do it in a way we find comfortable.
TE: agreed. DM has strong views, but I could not help but remember Miss Snark saying that it all really comes down to writing a great book. Marketing and networking will only get you so far, but this is such a online dominated world we live in, and I still say everyone needs some kind of online platform - but if it eclipses the writing as a time demand, IMO, that's not good. I think that was the biggest point DM was making.
His answer didn't surprise me in the least. Everyone out "here" has his or her own reasons for blogging. Mine never had anything to do with self-promotion. I haven't even finished a book yet. My motivation has merely to connect with other writers and to share thoughts and ideas on the process of writing.
That's just me. I think for some of my fellow bloggers who have released books and have an online following, perhaps the online presence has helped marginally, but I can't believe it's helped them much. One exception might be Pat Wood with Lottery, although I don't have any evidence to support that except that she was very actively commenting on other blogs and promoting Lottery -- now, her publisher invested quite a bit into the release too, so it may be that her efforts were negligible.
Josephine, you said, "There's a big name author in our group, formerly repped by William Morris Agency(!) who not only ditched her agent but her publisher as well since she considers it "their fault" that she has not had the success she'd hoped for - too bad she didn't understand that the buck stops with her - or rather the quality of her writing -"
And that could be exactly right, but everyone has to define success on their own terms and it's very important to find the right agent and the *right* publisher for your work. Bigger isn't always better.
I received a lot of advice from agents that just wasn't right for me. I recently heard an agent tell a group of Canadian writers not to set their books in Canada because they'd never sell. I said, "Louise Penny, Giles Blunt," (heck, I have two books coming out in the US from Harcourt this year) but the agent wouldn't be swayed.
Donald Maass is right, it's all about what's between the covers but a lot of it is also about what *you* want to put between those covers.
Great stuff here. Very informative. I respect Maas so certainly will give his comments a lot of thought. I think it makes a big difference on whether an author is published with a big house as opposed to a small house.
I absolutely agree on the dangers of "scratching the itch"."
WOW, okay I'll say it again, WOW.
But DM does make some good points. I often find myself too concerned about what to blog than making the revisions I need to make, or working on my next manuscript...because the itch to write is being satisfied by the BLOG. Yikes, I think he's right.
Convicted!!!!
Thanks for sharing this.
Awesome! And jealous that you got to attend his workshop. I agree with him and I agree with you. Clearly, there are exceptions to every rule. I like blogging for the writing community, not for self promotion - but then I have nothing to promote just yet!
A very interesting read, JD, and kudos to you for not being intimidated by what sounds like a pretty brusque character! :)
Wow. You asked a good question! Thank you for posting this.
I attended Donald Mass' workshop and the novel I just sold to Text Publishing, was titled The Wog Manual but don't know if it will stay, was plotted during the workshop. While I had the idea, his workshop really made me push the envelope and elements in the story.
When I start my next project I'll be buying his workbook and using it. He's brilliant.
About the promotion-I so agree with him. I've had a blog for a couple of years now and even though I get over it sometimes, I keep it up because a lot of really cool things have come from it.
I've met some great people on-line, had some wonderful promotion opportunities that wouldn't have happened otherwise (a radio interview that led to some publicity) etc.
My goal is to post once a week, sometimes I do more, sometimes less. While I receive reports from sitemeter I don't look at them. There's not many hits and I'm just doing it to network will fellow writers, vent, and have a on-line presence until I have a website.
I've started My Space and while I'm collecting friends like crazy, I don't think that will actually lead to many sales.
When my book is published it will give readers a forum to find and connect to me personally, but it won't work the other way around.
My own experience has been even though I come across a lot of wonderful writers through the on-line community, I will still only buy a book for people that I've trully connected on a personal level.
When you're doing shallow, fake promotion for the sake of it (the way I'm pimping myself out now by collecting My Space friends for the sake of having a number) it doesn't work. Only if you actually connect with people, read about their life, take a genuine interest will it lead to a sale.
Now I could spend 3-5 hours a day really connecting to people on-line and recruiting them as potential book buyers and readers, or I could spend that time revising, working on my next project, writing short stories, writing articles/essays, preparing workshops etc.
I'll pick the activities in the real world. Even though I'm recruiting My Space friends, I'm not putting the effort into it. I'm just clicking on add friends after a cursory look at their page and not even commenting beacause I believe it will have the same effect as doing all the networking. Pretty much zero.
However when I get published and start doing school visits and tell young people about My Space page and that I'll be running competitions to promote my book so they should friend me... well that might work a little bit.
John: Thanks for stopping by. Any relationship can get stale over time, as people change and evolve apart from one another, and I can see how the agent-client relationship can be no different.
I guess the William Morris Agency has such a mythic aura, my first reaction was, What? when she told me she went to a much smaller firm, but yes, I can see how any writer could feel lost in one of those huge "dream" firms. I know this gal has also ditched her publisher and her genre - no doubt with the idea that they were the problem. They well could be, but I'll be watching to see if she has the career she wants to have now because of all these changes, or was her writing the problem? I've never read her books, so I don't know.
Even with a big name agent and big house behind you, there are no guarantees of happiness in this biz.
Oh, wow, great info here. Especially the scratching the itch part, which I had already recognized in myself. The reason I've been considering blogging less, in fact.
But this is wonderful info, and thanks for sharing, Josie. I shall link to it.
CG: If you don't have them yet definitely get all of Donald's books. Big house vs. small? I guess it all really comes down to how my PR they give your book.
Yeah, that "itch" remark really hit home for me, and I had the feeling, for some of my blog peeps as well.
The scratch the itch thing struck me. I've definitely had days like that, but mostly I use posts to jumpstart the pump. I can bang out a post in a few minutes and move on to fiction. Then, when the fiction gets tough at midday, I can check back in at the blog for comments and a little pick-me-up.
Sex Scenes had a ton of readers for awhile. It was a hell of a lot of work. Too much work to maintain if I wanted to write a book, that's for sure!
I jumped to here from Nathan's blog and this interview caught my attention enough that I linked it to my own blog. Thanks for posting it!
Jennifer: We're both convicted! And I deserve a life sentence for offering crits and kudos in Nathan's first page contest. Whatever plans I had for writing yesterday (today and tomorrow) have gone out the window.
Lisa: As I sat there talking to DM, I ran a list of names through my head as examples, and Pat was one - but yes, she used a paid publicity firm - so she can't be certain how much blogging effects sales. She's really working the blogosphere hard, though, when perhaps she should be more focused on her WIP, JMO.
DM's point about blogging sure proved prophetic with me - I planned to write yesterday (school stuff) and got NOTHING done because I was on blogger all day!
Ello: I can honestly say I'd been using myspace to drive traffic to my blogs, to self-promote and my first week there, it did lead to an opportunity that resulted in my getting a story published, so DM's comments about myspace hit really hard.
Because of school, and the JD blog becoming popular, I've tapered of there, but DM's comments made my realize I should cut back more on myspace.
I won't delete my account since I still post my book reviews there, and use it as way to communicate with writers in private, and to give a shout out when someone has some positive writing news. But I'll coast there, maybe check in once a week, until - when - if - I ever have a big enough fan base to warrant all the time it takes to manage it.
Don't be jealous, folks! Donald is coming to a city near you! Here's his schedule:
http://www.maassagency.com/appearances.html
Conduit! So glad to see you out-and-about in the blogosphere.
*shake my booty*
*shake my booty*
Me and DM? That was one typically over-confident NYer talking to another - we spoke the same language.
Mary: Welcome! I loved your avatar the first time I saw it over at Nathan's - it's quite distinct.
I know a lot of us bloggers wonder if agents are googling us, or taking the time to consider what we write - especially short stories or WIP's - on our blogs (and myspace and websites too), so I knew there'd be a lot of people interested in that answer. Who knows about how other agents feel, but at least we now know where Donald stands on this issue.
Amra! Did Donald come to Austrailia? Europe? Or did you attend his workshop here in the US?
I had a whole new perspective on my WIP from just the one day workshop (he's hosting 3-day and 7-day retreats this year - I posted the link in the comments). Your mentioning how you got a book contract after attending his workshop is the best possible advertising for him and his workbook.
When he and I discussed myspace, I immediately thought of you and Karen Harrington as well - both with books to be released, and both getting started on myspace. I can see Donald's point to wait till you have 4-5 books out until it pays off, but I can also see, especially with a book geared to younger readers (who all have a myspace page) that a certain, limited amount of time and energy spent there, even at the start of your career could be worthwhile.
Sex: Me too! The ironic thing is that I totally wanted to share what I learned (and I have many more "Donald chronicles" to do) here on the blog, but it's interfering with writing!
No worries, I'll still share all my Donald stuff, but once I'm done, I'll back off posting so often.
Jamie: thanks so much for the linky love - that question about blogging and online promoting was a topic that'll interest a great many people.
I have many more Donald posts planned, so please do keep checking back - I just need to get past Nathan's contest!
I admire Maass.
Thank you, Josephine.
Josie, thanks so much for posting this. It's very interesting to hear his perspective.
Very VERY interesting.
I, for one, am relieved to hear that agents don't Google author blogs.
Now I can go back to skipping spell check and talking about pr0n.
What food for thought! Thanks so much for sharing. I wish I could go to more things like this.
Donald came to Australia. He was a guest of the 2004 Romance Writers of Australia conference and I was a member. He did a one day workshop and rocked my world.
I absolutely believe that the reason I got so much attention for my novel early on (the first agent I submitted to took me on, and when it was submitted to publishers I recevied two offers) is because of this workshop.
A lot of the romance writers in attendance were so frustrated because he was so demanding. They were especially hit hard with the whole-remove back story, remove back story chant. But I found it invaluable. I came up wih all these complicated plots and well developed characters because of his exercises. I can't praise him and his workshop enough.
I also had the opportunity to pitch to him. He of course requested a submission (he requested it from everyone) but he picked apart my pitch and made me realise that there wasn't enough drama and I added an element I was really scared about (the character's Mum having bi polar) because of this.
WW: thanks for the link. His "itch" remark hit home with me, and I knew that hearing someone of that caliber say that would carry a lot of weight with my blogger buddies.
AW and Bernita: I can how his style is not for everyone, but he's on a mission to track the ever changing trends of this biz.
Spy: Donald has 3 excellent writing advice books you can read. And he does travel a great deal - even to Austrailia! You never know when he'll be within driving distance!
Dwight: considering how I've gone on my blog about how much I lusted after Donald when I was in the elevator at a conference with him - he was wearing his gym clothes - I'm really grateful he never read those comments through a google search of himself!
Josie---Did you see Kristin Nelson's newest post today on her Pub Rants blog? I think it tweaks DM's view just slightly...in that an author web site should be a priority and be in place before the book is released. But I think it presupposes DM's point--That you should have a good fucking book first.
Great post! I'm not surprised to hear him say that blogging, etc., doesn't help break a writer, because that's what I already believed, but yeah. That "scratching the itch" thing hits a nerve. In my current slump, I'm finding it far easier to blog than to write. Gotta change that...
JJ: I've noticed lots of my blogger buddies have cut back since reading that. Another issue that seems to interfere with writing (and reading) time that I see talked up us TV - in that I'm noticing some writers and even agents don't have TV anymore - they watch shows on DVD.
For me watching the presidential race on TV has been my biggest time suck - can't wait till a nominee has been decided - the suspense is killing me.
Mass's comment doesn't surprise me, Agents are looking for salable material. Period. That's it. They don't care where it comes from or how it came to be.
If anything, I'd say a heavy blog presence could be construed as a weak negative, since it's time spent writing on something other than salable works. AND some bloggers are giving away titles, premises and content before the works are published, which isn't really good.
Anon 3:19 - all very excellent points, especially on too much blogging being perceived as a negative.
Thanks for stopping by.
Great post, Josephine. I didn't start blogging until I had 3 books out. But most of the traffic I get is at my website and people signing up for my newsletter. Blogging can be so time consuming but it definitely has it's place for us writers. I love to know more about my favorite authors. I love it when agents blog too (like Jessica Faust and Nathan whats-his-name). I devour the information--it's all way better than Writer's Market, etc. I don't see it as a way to "get an in" with an agent if you make a comment, but it is a way to get questions answered that you normally wouldn't be able to.
Ah, Donald Maass. I loved his book on writing the breakout novel.
Speaking as a semi-serious blogger, it's true what he says about the fan base level with respect to when the blog gets to be a real snowball.
And I've seen writers who are "only" bloggers achieve a fan base in a similar amount of time to publishing a few books. In fact, even larger fan bases. But the effort required to get to that level is as much as writing books.
So in a sense, it's six of one, half a dozen of the other: you work real hard at books, and then get a decent blog audience that snowballs; or you work real hard at blogging, and then get a decent audience who would be interested in a book.
In either case, the timeline is in years, and a lot of effort is spent. No free lunches.
Another comment about blogging: if you take it seriously, then you sure won't be using it to escape your fiction writing! If you have columns to turn out, serious posts of great effort in the queue, and a schedule, blogging is no longer a place to escape the responsible writing.
Currently I'm fleeing from my blogging into my fiction. I kind of bounce between the two, but somehow manage to get words done on both at the end of every day.
Arachne Jericho: Welcome! Some great insights into the blogging vs. writing dilema in your comments.
I knew that while I was in grad school, it would be tough to focus as much on my WIP as I wanted to, but by building up the blog and myspace, I felt like I was doing something toward my writing career.
Publishers seem to require that you have some form of public platform to use to promote yourself but yes, it's all about balance.
Josephine,
Thanks for your post. Fantastic points. I think it's GREAT that when you make it big you can claim, "Donald Maass flipped me off and I still made it in this business!"
:-)
“It’s what’s between the cover that sell the book.”
That pretty much sums it up. Everything else is just icing or itch scratching.
No Bull Steve: thanks for visiting. I think the bird-flipping was the reaction to writers believing that myspace will put them on the bestseller list as opposed plain old fashioned great writing.
But his flipping the bird certainly was a moment I'll not forget!
This was such a great report. I love Maass's honesty, and his book is excellent. It's much easier to trust the opinion of someone who tells it straight.
Jennifer, it's sad but there are a lot of writers who don't want to hear straight talk about the harsh realities of the biz. I certainly saw a lot of that in my critique group.
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